Google set to reduce the Android source code releases to just twice a year
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I'm curious if anyone here uses a GNU/Linux phone as their daily driver. I am still using the low-end Android phone that my parents bought for me nearly a decade ago. Haven't decided what I'll do when it stops working.
Is it stock android or a modified android?
My graphene os phone is still more libre than that.
Not completely libre obviously though, but has more freedom at least and no privacy invasions!
Stock Android, will all of the proprietary crap though I've disabled it as much as possible and use apps from F-Droid.
Maybe I will go with a GrapheneOS phone next time. Hopefully they won't be too negatively affected by Google's less frequent source releases.
Consider as an Android alternative a device and system that allows the freedom 1 of free software.
"(...) and change it so it does your computing as you wish"
GrapheneOS goes against such freedom with the excuse of security, where you are merely a user, just like any other ROM, stock included.
For this reason, Replicant comes with root enabled, so that whoever uses it can do so as an administrator, like our GNU/Linux distributions.
With the fall of DivestOS, if I had to choose an Android alternative, but not recommend it, as the least bad option, it would be LineageOS with Magisk.
I don't think lack of root access is really a software freedom issue as long as you are allowed to modify it though. It makes it less convenient to modify the software on your device, but the modifications can still be done.
No, only a rooted device is really yours.
Try to undertand, again, why Replicant used to do it.
There are several directories that cannot be modified or even read in a "user system"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooting_(Android)#Advantages
"As a superuser has access to the device's system files"
"The device owner can fully access and manage every file and directory stored on their device, including in directories that are invisible to the normal user, such as the /data directory"
Android in general, together with GOS, represent a huge step backward in user freedom, always under the premise of security.
I disagree that an operating system without root access is automatically nonfree. If you can modify it to remove any such artificial restrictions, that is not a software freedom issue. In GrapheneOS's case, from what I've read, there are debug builds that you can install where you do in fact have root access through ADB.
Of course GrapheneOS is not fully free software as it includes proprietary blobs. This is true of any Android "ROM" except for Replicant, which only works on a few devices and is not very actively developed.
I have never said that a system without root access is non-free.
I have commented that such a system, being a user and not an administrator, represents a step backwards in user freedom, partially going against freedom 1 of free software.
On the other hand, in order to have adb root in GOS, you need to enter some commands manually in the compilation, but they don't even tell you how to do it on their own website:
https://grapheneos.org/build#building-grapheneos
You have to go to their discussion forum, where they explain it:
https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/28966-granting-root-access-to-adb-shell-only
Similarly, they urge you not to use adb under any circumstances, on the pretext of security:
https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/28966-granting-root-access-to-adb-shell-only/13
Anyway, I'm going to leave this topic alone.
There are many other reasons why I am not interested in GOS, such as its continuous attack on alternatives in its media, always under the premise of security, where they have criticized almost any alternative project. And finally, the unethical nature of having to financially support Google in order to use its system.
Perhaps, but if regular android doesn't even have privacy of any kind.
GrapheneOS at least has privacy.
The freedom to not be spied on it is a very valuable one.
My point I guess is, GrapheneOS is way more libre than android.
But I do agree neither are completely libre
There can be no privacy on a device whose baseband OS is always closed source and therefore unmodifiable:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseband_processor#Security_concerns
What is worse, think of a baseband os from a Google device.
Besides, it is initialized by a proprietary Google bootloader, whose project hosts on its servers and urges users to install the binaries of Google Play Services spyware instead of MicroG, which is at least open source.
Take into account that this malware, or any other app, can know you’re using GOS, and collect time, network, country, Android version, ISP name, IP and so on, like any other app.
https://grapheneos.org/faq#non-hardware-identifiers
Furthermore, apps can see and communicate with others into a profile.
On the other hand, GOS needs to make vast amount of connections to their servers in order to update:
https://grapheneos.org/faq#default-connections
https://grapheneos.org/faq#other-connections
Due to the fact bootloader is locked, you cannot do it offline, like in LineageOS or Replicant.
By the way, Replicant makes no unsolicited connections. Nothing. Because privacy is essential for them.
To sum up, there is no privacy on mobile phones. Period.
That is the reason Stallman doesn't have one.
Isn't Replicant basically dead at this point? As in, there's been no updated code for years, the currently available version of Replicant is probably therefore vulnerable to all kinds of old AOSP security exploits, and it doesn't even work on modern cell phone networks?
If not, please correct me. If true, then why is every question about phones still responded to on this forum with "well, you should be using Replicant"?
I have not recommended Replicant in my answers.
I have only pointed out the reason why it comes with root by default and no automatic connection.
In fact, As I said before, if I had to use something without any recommendations, it would be LineageOS with Magisk.
Rooting allows you to manually delete DRM-related files (see device repository), uninstall and disable pre-installed proprietary applications such as AudioFX, CneApp, several Qualcomm apps, Google euicc, and many more that can be seen here:
https://codeberg.org/divested-mobile/divestos-build/raw/branch/master/Scripts/Common/Deblob.sh
His reason for not using mobile phones is they aren't libre I thought.
AS for urging people to install binaries of google play, no. they give the option to, which isn't great either I will admit, but its not quite the same as telling people they should.
Btw, as Andy said, replicant is basically dead... or at minimum, heavily outdated.
That's worse than grapheneos and android and lineageos.
If you want to recommend lineageos over grapheneos, that's fine, but replicant is to put it bluntly, mostly useless if it doesn't get some major updates.
Btw, I was told that grapheneos is made secure by default from the ground up.
I suppose that could be wrong though.
It's no only because of their proprietary technology, but also because of their constant tracking. Stallman also said that they were Stalin's dream.
As for Play Services, if you take a look at GOS media, they tell you to use, optionally of course, those binaries for security reasons, instead of MicroG, and what is worse, they also host them on their servers.
https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/4290-sandboxed-microg/18
https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/1733648488779403443#m
On the other hand, nothing connected to the internet can be secure.
Snowden, for example, uses GOS, and he removes the cameras and microphones from the phones.
In fact, a German store, Nitrokey, sells phones with GOS pre-installed and offers the option of removing these components.
I wouldn't say data collection is purely Stalin's dream, its every strongman's dream to have such power.
I shudder to think what Hitler would have done with such power.
And that part about Snowden sounds like its proof that it is in fact secure.
I doubt snowden would use anything insecure.
But yeah, I hear what you are saying on the play services.
Aurora store is a better way to do it and better still not use any of those services at all.
I see it differently.
The fact that Snowden uses it means that he considers it to be the best option in terms of security, but that it is not inherently secure, which is why he removes the cameras and microphones, because he trusts the software but not Google's hardware.
I mean, yes its the best option for him, but he is choosing paranoia level security that is why he removes the cameras and microphones.
Its the idea of better be safe than sorry.
I agree with his take on that though.
But yeah, google hardware can be a problem.
Honestly though, I have to say, samsung and other android vendors are inherently worse due to their usual restrictions of running modified android systems like lineageos and grapheneos. This means you are in deeply bs situation if you have to use regular android.
Samsung and others are alas worse in this for now.
Although I would like to be wrong about this.
I am a translator!
The wikipedia page on GraphoneOS has a link to an archive of what Snowden said. He did not only mention removing cameras and microphones, also using ethernet instead of radio and TOR. Besides, he used conditional, so perhaps he wasn't actually using a smartphone at all when he said that (and perhaps he still isn't using one).
My bad then, that does muddy the waters quite a bit.
I am not certain what to think then.
I guess doing a web search might give more info then.
Although its possible that what I would find wouldn't be useful. Not really certain one way or the other
Thanks for clearing that up, so he does use it for sure.
Back to your original question, Jesse Smith posted rave reviews of PostmarketOS versions 25.06 and 25.12 on his PinePhone at DistroWatch last week: https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20260105#postmarketos
This could be significant because previously Jesse was never able to get good enough performance with his PinePhone to be useful.
So maybe the PinePhone or PinePhone Pro could be a daily driver GNU/Linux phone after all this time.
I am a translator!
What do you expect to be able to do with it? Like what features/apps, how reliable it should be, what the battery life should at the minimum be. Depending on that, a particular GNU/Linux device might be practical or not.
Honestly I don't do that much with my smartphone compared to most other people. Basically calling, texting, Signal, taking photos, two-factor authentication (TOTP/HOTP), maps, and web browsing.
For maps I use OsmAnd and well as (unfortunately) Google Maps. I use the apps for different things. Google Maps for looking up shops, libraries, etc. and their opening hours and reviews, as well as directions with public transit and real-time traffic information (the latter is not as important because I don't really drive). OsmAnd mainly for my outdoor activities including long distance (multi-day) bike rides. I would like to use Organic Maps more as a Google Maps substitute but OSM is lacking (though I try to contribute to it as much as I can).
I don't use things like social media, banking, ride share, or food delivery apps. On the rare occasion (like once a year) that I need to take an Uber, I do it through the browser.
I do use my city's transit app (proprietary, unfortunately) that allows me to purchase e-tickets for the commuter rail. Unfortunately you can't do this through the web browser. I guess I could do without it though, as there are physical ticket machines.
I am a translator!
> calling, texting, Signal, taking photos, two-factor authentication (TOTP/HOTP), maps, and web browsing
I don't recall details, but my experience on a Pinephone 2 years ago was that web browsing was not practical at all. I remember that Firefox menus were mostly out of the screen.
Also, I was trying to synchronize contacts and calendar of my radicale server, the only way to do it was to setup evolution with an external display, because menus were entirely out of screen otherwise, and the external display wasn't working reliably at all, which made it really challenging.
Another issue was that the battery did not last more than 4 hours, even doing absolutely nothing.
> I would like to use Organic Maps more as a Google Maps substitute but OSM is lacking (though I try to contribute to it as much as I can).
I mostly drive while on holiday, on small country side roads. I have been using Organic Maps for at least 3 years (I switched to CoMaps recently), things like shops are very often not accurate, but for roads I never had any problem. Of course, for roads in dotted lines, it happened that they were not usable at some point, but this is something you can expect when you try such a road.
> I don't recall details, but my experience on a Pinephone 2 years ago was that web browsing was not practical at all. I remember that Firefox menus were mostly out of the screen.
Yeah, that's a dealbreaker. Not that I do much web browsing on my phone (I've tried to minimize my phone usage) but it is very convenient when traveling.
> Another issue was that the battery did not last more than 4 hours, even doing absolutely nothing.
That is also a dealbreaker.
> I mostly drive while on holiday, on small country side roads. I have been using Organic Maps for at least 3 years (I switched to CoMaps recently), things like shops are very often not accurate, but for roads I never had any problem. Of course, for roads in dotted lines, it happened that they were not usable at some point, but this is something you can expect when you try such a road.
I hadn't heard of CoMaps but I'll give it a try. As I said, I essentially don't drive. OsmAnd is pretty much perfect for my bike rides (I ride both for utility and leisure) as well as walks/runs. What I miss though is public transit schedules, which Google has access to.
When I am on the occasional car trip with family, sometimes they ask me to start navigation, and they find Google's real time traffic/time projections very useful. Of course I can do it on their phones, but sometimes they forget, or forget to charge their phones.
Fun fact, I have a sibling who used to work at Google until recently and did some work on Google Maps. That does not make me any more or less inclined to use it though. I'd prefer not to use it because it's proprietary.
I survive quite well with the best solution in using no mobile phone.
That is the most secure way...
and the most healthy way...
I am using a landline telephone instead,
the receiver connected with a cable
without any microwaves.
I am happy!
Follow my example!
That is what Stallman does. I can admire that, but it's not a great option for me personally.